Friday
Jul022010
Independence Day Weekend Open Thread
After signing the Declaration of Independence in his famous large script, John Hancock remarked, "There, I guess King George will be able to read that."
Have a great weekend and enjoy our greatest patriotic holiday.
Post what you like.
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Reader Comments (13)
The democracy will cease to exist
when you take away from those
who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every
generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on would save
one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for
Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the
pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me
that most bad government results from too much
government.
Thomas Jefferson
No free man shall ever be debarred
the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be
refreshed from time to time with the blood of
patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to subsidize with
his taxes the propagation of ideas which he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
'I believe that
banking institutions are more dangerous to
our liberties than standing armies.
If the American people ever allow
private banks to control the issue of their
currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will
grow up around the banks will deprive the people
of all property - until their children
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered.'
Thomas Jefferson
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”...“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
Got a link for that John Adams quote? Sounds like some of Christian nationalist pseudo-historian David Barton's revisionist gibberish.
As we prepare to celebrate the signing of one of the greatest documents in world history what would of Founding Fathers say about the inept, ignorant cowards that are the majority party? This piece of legislative beauty passed last Wednesday night.
"Last night, as part of a procedural vote on the emergency war supplemental bill, House Democrats attached a document that "deemed as passed" a non-existent $1.12 trillion budget. The execution of the "deeming" document allows Democrats to start spending money for Fiscal Year 2011 without the pesky constraints of a budget.
The procedural vote passed 215-210 with no Republicans voting in favor and 38 Democrats crossing the aisle to vote against deeming the faux budget resolution passed.
Never before -- since the creation of the Congressional budget process -- has the House failed to pass a budget, failed to propose a budget then deemed the non-existent budget as passed as a means to avoid a direct, recorded vote on a budget, but still allow Congress to spend taxpayer money.
Shame.
Why sure, Hugh.
You have doubts about the other thousands of pro-God Founder's quotes?
GrayRider-
Did you even read the Wiki entry you just linked to? I questioned the veracity of the quote because I detected an agenda, and you just proved me right. The Wikipedia article you linked to clearly states that this is a common misquote.
And with the awesome power of Google at my disposal, I was able to find out that this is a patchwork of three phrases taken from a letter (28 June 1813) to Thomas Jefferson juxtaposed to give a misleading impression of Adams’ meaning. Check it out for yourself, please. Our history is important and Christian nationalists who revise it need to be called out – especially on our nations independence day.
That depends on the source. I would greet any quote you throw out with well deserved skepticism since you’ve just proven yourself highly susceptible to believe the plethora of fake quotes like the one I just challenged you on.
I’m not saying that some of the founding fathers weren’t Christians. Some most certainly were. But others were deists and some were agnostics and atheists too. That’s why our Constitution expressly forbade the establishment of an official state religion and made clear that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any public office. In fact, the founders did not want our country to be a “Christian nation” as I suspect you naively believe. The truth is that our founders were sick and tired of centuries of European religious wars, purges and church corruption. They wanted to found a country where people could enjoy freedom of and/or freedom from religion.
And finally, for every supposedly “pro-God” founder’s quote you find that isn’t actually fake like the one you used earlier, I can find a contrary quote (often from the same author). Here are a few examples:
Anyway, I hope you enjoy the holiday weekend and perhaps have learned something from this exchange.
As far as religion and government are concerned, I tend to give the Founders a great deal of credit for their wisdom. While some of them were "believers" as Christians use the term today, others were Deists and still others were agnostics. (Were any of the prominent Founders publicly avowed atheists? My memory fails on that point...)
The question we must ask is this: Given the numerous writings extolling the benefits of Providence bestowed upon the new nation, and the obvious beliefs of several of the preeminent Founders, why would they declare their Independence--and later design a Constitution and Bill of Rights--with so few references to their God and/or their faith? The quick-and-easy answer is that they were flush with the religious freedom they had established (by and large) in the colonies and anxious to preserve it, but I have come to believe that there was more to it than that, but I'll pick that up in another comment.
We often venture into great debates around, and deep analysis of, what the Founders wrote - not only in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but also in writings such as the Federalist Papers and their personal correspondence. Why, particularly in the case of the Constitution, do we not make the same analysis of what they chose NOT to write, especially when such obvious differences exist between the two?
My oldest daughter is spending this month as one of Kentucky's Governor's Scholars. They'll be spending their Fourth of July afternoon reading and discussing the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
I think that everyone should follow that example. You can find the text of these incredible documents online, courtesy of the National Archives' "Charters" exhibit. I heartily recommend that we all spend a bit of our time, amidst the barbecue and fireworks, talking about these foundations of our nation. We may differ on particular questions, and we're certain to disagree on how best these notions should be implemented--the various amendments to the Constitution show how we have approached those implementations--but I think we can all agree that, when you get right down to it, our Constitution is what separates us from every other nation on earth.
Wes;
Good link. Thank you.
Tom
Happy 4th to all from Los Angeles. I'm a bit surprised that it is actually chilly here this morning!
Turns out Americans uphold American values more consistently than the Extreme Right thinks they do.
Awesome post, I will be sure to come back and visit!