Interesting debate there... where are the parents in all of this? What was their input and reactions? not knowing the details, it's hard to base a conclusion. I know possessed people aren't usually willing to consent to an exorcism :: chuckles ::, but there are instances.

Also, if one doesn't know what they're doing, there can be more harm than good as the result. Most often in the hands of a person who doesn't truly know what they're doing, an exorcism often results in the opening a door to even more demons and making one prone to even more attacks. It takes a specially trained person with a spiritual ability most people simply don't nor ever will possess. There is a very small number of locations even considered qualified to take on such a task.

Most are done quite peacefully and don't require harmful restraint, and don't in any way resemble those you see on the exorcist and city to city seminars. You truly know how utterly ridiculous those are if you ever get to sit by and witness a real life exorcism. I'm even more astonished that the man has never advertised himself as an exorcist, never proclaims to be one, but for some reason people still seek and find him. His phone number somehow makes it into their hands, or they wind up doing to church and talk to somebody who knows of him, or overhear people talking about him. Never has he ever said he can help them, but still they come for his aid.

That alone simply gives me the chills....
... and truly makes a believer out of people.

Excorcism? You've got to be kidding. What century is this again?

Out of curiousity, was Bobby Jindal anywhere near that girl? Jindal has admitted to subduing a female college friend of his and performing an excorcism on her in the 90's. He even helped hold her down when she tried to escape.

"Ecclesiastic immunity" - Oh my non-existant god! Talk about judicial activism. And what good is it supposed to do sending the case to the Supremes? Half of them are religious fruitcakes just like the ones in the lower courts.

--------

And skinnydipinacid - Get help! You belong in an asylum.

The members of congregation responsible should be held accountable. Obviously the exorcism didn't work: the girl is suing. More likely, the girl was not possessed in the first place, and someone equated bad behavior with demon possession. Even in a country such as ours, there has to limits to one's freedom, even religious ones, if we wish to steer clear of anarchy.

Further, I have to say that congregations that utilize exorcism are treading on dangerous religious ground. Even the Catholic Church, which has been existence for almost two thousand years, shies away from exorcism except in very rare and extreme cases.

There seems to be less to this case than meets the eye. There doesn't seem to be any planned exorcism in this case, it just seems to be that the girl spazzed out in church and they held her down until she relaxed and would say Jesus.

really? Well then... that's an entirely different monster.
What's sad is that they probably thought they were doing some good.

Egg... which is crazier? To have doubts and to learn of my own experiences what is right and true, or to wholeheartedly disbelieve in God despite your own lack of knowledge and spiritualism. Go spread the hate to your fellow pop-culture atheist/agnostic/nihilist/whatever friends down at Starbucks who might relish in such blind Mahr-esque resentment. (In your mind I'll bet 90% of the world is full of religious zealots and homophobes).

There's a big difference between doubting God, the Devil and angels and demons exists and knowing full well that you, your friends and people you hardly even know are being attacked in your sleep and crosses getting knocked off your walls... just because because they/we are stepping up and trying to help somebody who asks for help. There are some things you simply can't even comprehend, let alone question. Things that if you witnessed, you run the risk of your fuzzy little head exploding.

One friend's boss was so freaked out by activities that were going on in her home (and away from my friend), actual attacks the lady was experiencing at night, she felt she had no choice but to let my friend go (with a decent compensation) and pay her for the rest of the month just so she'd leave, no longer work there and never come back around her again. She was a nice person, she just didn't understand. My friend didn't gripe, bitch, complain or point blame on that... could you have done the same?

It's alot easier when you know God has your back and the devil has no power over you, but there are those who still fear the devil and his evil instead of opposing it. Fear is how they think they can overcome you, and often times it's those who are most vulnerable that fall victim. Another fun fact for you, since you think I'm nuts anyway... demons also like to prey on people of great power, persuasion, faith and importance. They don't waste time on people who are already God hating, self-loathing, embittered, disbelievers of that so-called church-ish hocus-pocus such as yourself.

There's a big difference between you and me Egg, that's quite apparent... however little do you know, I used to share some (not all... that would be crazy) of your enthusiasm. I used to think God couldn't possibly exist, not with all the thing I had been through, but really that was just my own self pity getting the best of me. I had it rough, that's not a lie... but looking back I find more blame could have been pointed in my direction over choices I made, and perhaps less at God. The bigger difference is that I have learned to learn from my own failures and overcome my own struggles without having to lash out at God/humanity/religion/Republicans with reckless disdain and no knowledge and understanding of a greater plane of existence.

Either way, I'd pity you inside or outside of the asylum.
However... loathing, mocking and belittling God...
whether you believe in it or not...
well...

that's just nuttier than squirrel shit, not to mention dumb.

Skinny - I actyually try very hard not to mock other people's religions, but it would be much much easier to do so if there were not so many religious nuts trying to force their religion on the rest of us. It would be so much easier if the followers of the worlds 3 major monotheistic religions could just seem to figure out that they all worship the same God of Abraham and quit trying to kill each other in the name of God.

It would be much easier if the same Christians who seem to have decided that the coming of Jesus meant that the parts of Leviticus that would pertain to them don't count any more, would quit turning around and telling the homosexuals how God declared them abominations in Leviticus.

It would be so much easier if certain Christians would quit declaring that this is a Christian nation and pretending that all of the founders were Christians. It would be so much easier if more Christians acted a little more Christlike.

It would be so much easier not to mock religion if more people read the Bible and came away with a guiding philosophy on how to run their own lives, rather than an instruction manual on how others are supposed to live theirs.

I understand that place spirituality has in peoples lives. And if it helps you or someone else make more sence of and come to peace with this crazy world we're in, then the more power to ya, I'd say. But the hostility some people have towards religion, and I'd definitely say Egg is a part of this group, it comes from living in a society as a religious minority (non-believers) and being told over and over again by the religious majority that our views are not only wrong, but evil and unwelcome.

Respect for beliefs cuts both ways. Christians demand respect of their own views while holding out the right to be judgemental and abusive of others views. It just doesn't work that way.

Egg does a lot of loathing, mocking, belittling, for sure. Probably due to some very dark and extreme fear, resulting in wildly misdirected anger.

I have no problem with atheists per se, possibly because I have no spiritual answers of my own. One of my best friends is an atheist, absolutely firm in his convictions, but understanding and respectful of the religious foundations of others. It's the small segment of atheists who behave like Egg, full of bile and hate and viciousness, that I do not understand. What a monumental waste of time and energy.

kwawk... I'm by no means a bible thumper. I never have been a hardcore religious fanatic and I probably never will be. However, when one decides to mock and call believers "crazy", "insane" or "nuts", I certainly maintain every right to defend my beliefs... as we all do here already when it's a difference in politics. Does religion really have to be so different? I'm certainly not going to abandon them and convert my thinking to liberal christianity.

I love how people nitpick over ancient bible verses in the book of God written by men, as if that somehow justifies a nonexistence and backs up their non-beliefs. Just because certain things written centuries upon centuries ago doesn't fit into their new-age, ever evolving social landscape, it really doesn't justify uninformed ridicule from God haters like Egg. It's one thing to have questions and doubts... that's perfectly acceptable. It's quite another to belittle God as a pasttime.

We all have our doubts, troubles and moments we wished we didn't, lord know I'm no different. However, it's one thing to not know, and admit to not knowing, perhaps remaining silent.... as opposed to bragging about how non-christian one is, almost wearing it on their sleeve like it was a hip new seasonal polo from Old Navy.

As somebody who once called himself an atheist in his darkest hours, those kinds of critics make me want to punch them in the mouth. It's annoying stupidity, and kwack I already know you're not like that. I don't ridicule you for being an atheist, nor do I for most... but for people like Egg I make an obvious exception. In fact, I enjoy religious debate with you kwack... and I agree with you in many circumstances. I wish christians would act more like christ too, and I don't find non-belief to be evil in any way. Lashing out at God maybe, but in no way is questioning God or his existence evil, and true christians shouldn't do the same. I think we all have our own evils and our own demons... Christians are no different. It's what we do to overcome them , that's the key.

Wes, if you're looking at it that way... I'd have to say I'm a shunner of religion big time. You don't need a church to be a Christian. You don't need an organized religion. You don't need a priest, pastor, bishop or padre. Rember, it was Jesus who stated "destroy this temple"...
i think the matter continue to recycle itself.

Call me Doubting RedBeard. The original "doubter" is said to have gotten his proof. That would be nice right now.

Ha, ha, ha! Skinny - you're getting nuttier by the minute:

... demons also like to prey on people of great power, persuasion, faith and importance. They don't waste time on people who are already God hating, self-loathing, embittered, disbelievers of that so-called church-ish hocus-pocus such as yourself.

Lol and thanks for the lesson in demonology! And phew, that's good news for me that demons leave me alone because I'm god-hating and self loathing. Ha - take that demons - I'm immune! Has it ever occured to you that these demons you see are hallucinations of your hyperactive little imagination? Or maybe you've seen too many movies? Or you really should be on medication?

The father of modern psychology Sigmund Freud said "Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis." In your case, I couldn't agree more. Get a grip on reality my delusional friend. If you choose to talk about your kooky beliefs here on this blog, I get to make fun of them. That's life. You can demand respect for your religious beliefs until you're blue in the face, but to me, religions and imaginary deities are nothing more than elaborate man made fairy tales.

And if you think a politician's religious beliefs are off limits, wrong again. A pol's religious views are absolutely relevant to whether you should vote for them. They can't have it both ways. They can't say that their faith can inform their political views, as it inevitably does, an that their faith is off limits to criticism. A person's religious views can and do influence their policy preferences in an infinite number of ways. So bring on Palin, Jindal, Huckabee or Romney in 2012 and prepare for merciless mocking and ridicule!

kwAwk- You kind of get it, but only partially. You said:

I understand that place spirituality has in peoples lives. And if it helps you or someone else make more sence of and come to peace with this crazy world we're in, then the more power to ya, I'd say.

Agreed, sort of. As long as it doesn't affect me, people can believe whatever crazy-ass thing they want. But spirituality at the expense of truth - I can't condone. And I certainly can't condone spirituality over science or health or any number of other real world issues.

But the hostility some people have towards religion, and I'd definitely say Egg is a part of this group, it comes from living in a society as a religious minority (non-believers) and being told over and over again by the religious majority that our views are not only wrong, but evil and unwelcome.

Now this is where you've made a wrong turn. I thought you were an atheist, yet it sounds like you are accusing me of blasphemy. Don't allow yourself to buy into the demonization of outspoken atheists by the religious right. Is it a coincedence that the same language is being used to describe new atheists like Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris as the civil rights leaders of the 1960's? "Militant" and "Angry" and "Hostile" are words that were used to marginalize black leaders back then and now the same tactics are being used right on this blog to sheild them from well deserved mockery and ridicule.

If you wan't to continue to be a happy-rainbow-get along with everyone atheist, that's fine, but that approach doesn't work for everybody. Instead, I prefer using humor to make my points. Seriously, ask yourself - is religion something so sacred and special that it's above ridicule? I say no. I don't think anything at all is above ridicule. The late great George Carlin said his philosophy of life was to find out where the line is and cross it.

In my experience, it seems that all "organized" religious enterprises tend to go off the rails by pushing faith aside and substituting organizational bureaucracy. That's not evil, just distracting from the whole point.

But I suppose it's inevitable that whenever the "two or more" gathered together grows into a large number, this bureaucratic nonsense will ensue.

Egg - I haven't accused anybody of blasphemy, only accused you being hostile to religion. In the 60s among black leaders there were two different belief systems, the first represented by Martin Luther King Jr. who wnated to have blacks be treated as indistinguishable from white, just the person down the street who has more skin pigmentation. There there was the other belief system representeded by Elijah Muhammed and Louis Farrakan which advocted that the white man was the devil, all white men by the way, not certain racist ones, and Muhammed and Farrakan advocated the black separatist movement.

When you decry religion as being child abuse then to me you sound more like Mohammed and Farrakan than a MLK Jr. type. You're not looking for respect for yourself and your own views as much as you are looking to denegrate others views as you fell your's have been denegrated.

I don't feel that any particular belief system is above being mocked when it deserves mocking, but when you paint with an overly broad brush, and don't focus your riducule and have it land with precision, you just end up sounding like an angry, militant and hostile person. Personifying the very traits you say are unfairly labeled upon you.

Now I doubt anybody here would call me a happy-rainbow-get-along atheist. I stand up for what I believe in just like anybody else. When I see the influence of religion creeping into parts of society that it doesn't belong, such as monuments of the 10 commandments in public buildings, I say perfectly clearly that it isn't acceptable. However, I don't feel the need to scorn all religion and all people who practice it just for the sake of feeling superior.

It might come as a suprise to you, but it is possible to be an intelligent rational human being and be a religious and/or spiritual person at the same time.

... well said